In this premier episode of SNOMED International’s podcast Coded Conversations, Kelly Kuru, Chief Communications Officer, SNOMED International, moderates an engaging dialogue between hematologist Dr. Charles Gutteridge, clinical advisor to SNOMED International and Chief Clinical Information Officer at Barts Health NHS Trust in London; and Rory Davidson, SNOMED International’s Chief Information Officer, on the topic of interoperability -- what it means in healthcare, the current landscape and the latest developments.
Interoperability: Developments and Challenges in the Pursuit of the Holy Grail of Digital Health
Episode 01: Show Notes
Achieving interoperability in digital health presents significant challenges, but the rewards are immense. In the inaugural episode of SNOMED International’s podcast Coded Conversations, we delve into the intricacies of interoperability, unpacking developments in this field and the challenges faced. Joining us are two leading experts: hematologist Dr. Charles Gutteridge, clinical advisor to SNOMED International, and Chief Clinical Information Officer at Barts Health NHS Trust in London; and Rory Davidson, SNOMED International’s Chief Information Officer. Kelly Kuru, Chief Communications Officer for SNOMED International, moderates this conversation.
Tuning in you'll gain insights into what interoperability means in healthcare, the challenges inherent in achieving it, the vital role of a clinical terminology like SNOMED CT in enabling it, and where we currently stand in terms of its development. You’ll also hear about its benefits for medical professionals and patients, the global significance of comprehensible and shareable healthcare data, and the value of being able to use reliable medical data for research purposes. Join us in exploring the latest advancements moving the healthcare world closer to making interoperability a reality.
Key Points From This Episode:
Quotes:
“The technology will do what we want; it’s the human angle that’s the most important part of any discussion on interoperability.” — @rd_work [0:06:57]
“Terminology brings unambiguity into the message [of interoperability]. It means that [the message] is completely understood; you’re not having to interpret somebody else’s pretext or handwriting or anything like that.” — @rd_work [0:18:08]
“That magic bit of connecting data about people to research ideas that generate new knowledge is partly driven by making sure the data is interoperable.” — @GutteridgeC [0:27:06]
“Making it possible to share [data] for research purposes is one of the things that drives modern healthcare systems.” — @GutteridgeC [0:27:23]
Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:
Kelly Kuru 00:03
Okay, so welcome to the inaugural SNOMED International Podcast, Coded Conversations. Today we'll be speaking with two leading SNOMED International experts on the topic of
interoperability, the holy grail as it were of digital health. You'll learn what interoperability means in healthcare, the different types of interoperability required to enable seamless
care, and the role of a clinical terminology like SNOMED CT in enabling interoperability.
We'll talk a bit to the challenges that need to be overcome in the latest developments,
moving the healthcare world closer to making interoperability reality. And at the end of the podcast, we'll count how many times we've said the word interoperability. It's been a hot
topic for many years now and probably will remain one for the foreseeable future as we
continue to work to enable seamless interoperability locally, regionally, globally, et cetera.
So with that, I'm going to introduce our guests today. We've got Dr. Charles Guttridge.
Charles is a clinical advisor to SNOMED International and Chief Clinical Information Officer at Barts Health NHS Trust in London. And we've got Rory Davidson, who is SNOMED
International's Chief Information Officer. So welcome both of you. Great to have you.
C
Charles 01:05
Thank you.
R
Rory Davidson 01:18
Thank you.
C
Charles 01:19
Nice to be here.
K
Kelly Kuru 01:21
So popping right in here. Yeah, fantastic. Thanks, Charles. Let's start by examining
interoperability in the healthcare context and what it means to the different groups of
people that we interact with in health, patients, clinicians, institutions, practices,
et cetera. And Charles, maybe we'll start with you. What is interoperability to you? And
what does it mean to maybe more the clinically oriented among those groups?
C
Charles 01:54
Thanks, Kelly. And I'm going to add just one little piece to your introduction of who I am
because I think I'm going to start with humans. So I was a hematologist when I was in
clinical practice and I looked after patients with a wide range of illnesses. And obviously
sometimes I was starting right from the beginning when they first presented to me and
told me their stories. And I had to, as a clinician, turn that story into a set of things in my head, ideas, concepts, thoughts about what was wrong with
them, and then do a series of tests to confirm my suspicions, while at the same time trying to keep that patient calm because they might be anxious that they had a, I don't know,
particularly severe form of anemia or leukemia or... you know, maybe something less serious. But everyone wanted to know what I was
thinking. And the amazing thing about human beings is that you can do all of that at the
same time. You can think about somebody's condition. You can talk about it to them. You
can look at their xrays and interpret that, look at their blood results and interpret that and the brain just goes fizzlefuzzle and you've got it and you can share that information. I
could share that information with you or with Rory just by speaking. And that's of course
what computers cannot do at all. And the only way computers can do that is by a clever
guy like Rory turning my thoughts which I've recorded in some form into
K
Kelly Kuru 03:34
Right.
R
Rory Davidson 03:45
C
Charles 03:49
computable material that can be shared, either with other clinicians, whether that's a
nurse, a doctor, or others, or way across boundaries. Those boundaries might be healthcare boundaries in a health economy, but obviously it could be across countries and across languages,
across legal and jurisdictions. And all of that requires a framework and a system for
recording the information in my brain.
And it starts with me typing madly on a screen or maybe dictating some of that and a
machine at the back turning my dictation into words and then mapping those words into
something that is computable. And I should probably stop there, but I think the big
challenge with interoperability is that first human step that I have to do with a patient to get them to understand what I'm thinking
R
Rory Davidson 04:21
C
Charles 04:49
And I have to understand what they're thinking.
04:51
K
Kelly Kuru 04:54
I think that's a great perspective because, you know, quite often when we say the word
interoperability, when we start talking about it, it moves very quickly to potentially what
are the technical enablers needed to make it happen. And it's really great to remind
ourselves to this all comes from a human place. So that no thanks, Charles, that's
wonderful. Rory, could I get you to chime in a little bit just in terms of, from your perspective, what
interoperability means, maybe a little bit for you personally, but also for the role that you've played for many years as an experienced chief information officer in the field.
R
Rory Davidson 05:33
Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Kelly, for having me on the on the first inaugural podcast. I
mean, really, from my point of view, having really started my career in technology as the
Internet was really starting to wake up and become part of it. And this is when we started
to really be in a position where we could share data in, you know, whether it be emails or
messengers or photos, we started to share things electronically.
And healthcare is one of the obvious areas where we need to share our data from our
primary care to our secondary care to our tertiary care. And similarly, to make sure that the clinicians and healthcare professionals we see have the data we want them to have at the
right time. And the only way we can do that is by having interoperable systems or
mechanisms or standards in place to allow us to share that data.
So I think it's all been enabled by the technologies that we take for granted today that we didn't have 20, 30 years ago.
But we still got a way to go to make sure that we can have interoperability from the point of view of being able to see the data at the right time, share the data at the right time, and
understand the data that we're sharing. And that's kind of key. But to Charles's point, I
mean, obviously, I'm going to come at this from a technology angle. But the technology will do what we want. It's the human angle that's the most important part of any kind of discussion on interoperability.
K
Kelly Kuru 07:01
And what do you think is the most challenging part is of getting interoperability managed? Is it going to be the human part? Is it going to be the technical part?
R
Rory Davidson 07:10
Oh, human. 100%. It's, it's about, it's, and you know, when, go on, sorry.
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